没有 Figma、没有 Jira、没有文档：Gusto 如何用 Claude Code 做出新产品线 | CTO Eddie Kim

Eddie Kim is the co-founder and CTO of the payroll and HR platform Gusto, which just crossed $1 billion in revenue and serves more than 500,000 small businesses. Recently he did something most CTOs don’t: he went back to writing code. With three other engineers and one designer, Eddie built Gusto Cofounder, a net-new AI product, from zero code to a tier-one launch in 10 weeks. He walks through how that team actually worked, why they threw out nearly every process, and how anyone can copy the approach.

What you’ll learn:

1. The trash-can method: how to write, review, and delete a full PR as a product decision instead of a planning doc

2. The two-tool agent stack behind Gusto Cofounder

3. The exact “perma-Zoom” setup that replaced standups, retros, and Slack threads for 10 weeks

4. How a designer with no engineering background hit the 94th percentile for shipping code

5. The eval-first workflow Eddie uses to fix real customer bugs with Claude Code

6. How a non-technical leader can prototype an idea to win buy-in, then carry it all the way to production-quality code

Brought to you by:

Magic Patterns—Prototypes that look like your product

Jira Product Discovery—Prioritize with insights, build with confidence

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Intro: five people, 10 weeks

(02:38) The origins of Cofounder

(08:32) Inside the 10-week build process

(12:50) Building with no PMs

(14:38) The “trash can” method

(17:15) The stack architecture

(19:10) Shipping to production from day one

(22:03) How a designer became a top engineer

(29:05) Demo: Cofounder over text and Slack

(31:45) Demo: running a real payroll

(36:26) Live coding with evals in Claude Code

(39:39) Recap: prototype, small team, permission

(43:17) Lightning round

(48:44) Where to find Eddie and Cofounder

Tools referenced:

• Gusto Cofounder (early access/waitlist): https://gusto.com/cofounder

• Claude Code (Anthropic): https://claude.ai/code

• Cloudflare Workers: https://workers.cloudflare.com/

• Vercel AI SDK: https://sdk.vercel.ai/

• DX (engineering analytics): https://getdx.com/

• Wispr Flow (voice-to-text): https://wisprflow.ai

• OpenClaw: https://openclaw.ai/

Other references:

• Gusto (the main product, “Gusto Classic”): https://gusto.com

• Mindbody (referenced as customer data source): https://www.mindbodyonline.com/

Where to find Eddie Kim:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edawerd/

Where to find Claire Vo:

ChatPRD: https://www.chatprd.ai/

Website: https://clairevo.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairevo/

X: https://x.com/clairevo

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email jordan@penname.co.